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Thursday, September 23, 2004, 12:00 pm
Eminem, Apple in settlement talks, ask for trial delay
Apple and rap artist Eminem are looking to settle their legal dispute outside of court, but will need more time to do so.Lawyers for Eminem's music label, Apple Computer and MTV have asked a federal judge to delay the trial schedule following settlement talks in the rapper’s copyright infringement suit, according to the Detroit News.
The lawsuit, which was filed in February by Eminem's publisher--Eight Mile Style-- alleges Apple used the song "Lose Yourself" in an advertisement without permission.
In the ad, a 10-year-old sings the lyrics to Eminem's Oscar-winning "Lose Yourself," which was also featured in the rapper's blockbuster flick, "8 Mile." The commercial aired on MTV for at least three months starting in July 2003 and also appeared on Apple’s Web site, the suit said.
The suit alleges that Apple sought Eminem's permission to use the song, but were turned down, with his lawyers saying “even if (Eminem) were interested in endorsing a product, any endorsement deal would require a significant amount of money, possibly in excess of $10 million.”
The suit also claims that Apple CEO, Steve Jobs, personally called Joel Martin, the manager of Ferndale-based Eight Mile Style, encouraging Martin and Eminem to "rethink their position" about using the song.
Lawyers for all sides reportedly told U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor this week that they have been engaging in negotiations of a stipulated protective order for several weeks now, in hopes of resolving the case.
Court records also show that "Both (sides) have expressed interest in continuing settlement discussions, but have not yet been able to reach any agreement."
The Detroit News says under the revised schedule, a trial date wouldn't be set until late 2005, with witness lists would be due Dec. 1. Both sides would reportedly be able to question up to 10 people before trial, which may include Eminem and Apple Computer CEO Steve Jobs.
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Previous Comments View All
I can't understand why Apple chose to use an Eminem song! I love hip-hop since I was 8 yo, but since when Eminem can be considered a hip-hop artist? Strictly commercial stuff made by a greedy, narrow-minded and sick whitey from the ghetto (at least, that's what he shows to be).
I am a white man and love hip-hop, but Vanilla Ice and Snow proved to the world that white men can't sing hip-hop. They should let it to the real guys in that business and limit themselves to listening. But that's only my opinion...
What I really mean is that some 10 yo boy singing some song made by a commercial artist that earns his money telling how bad her mother was is not something I want to see in an Apple ad! And I am sure no sane people on earth would want that.
Apple could have chosen De La Soul again, as they did in the "Rip, Mix, Burn" ad campaign. Even if they're not on some top-10 list. That is real hip-hop!
More than ever, I hate Eminem!
I would disagree with you Ice.
Growing up with Hip Hop I had respect for the Beastie Boys(they always did their own thing) and MC Serch. There have been a few other white hip hoppers that represented well IMO. I think Eminem has immense talent but honestly getting petty over a snippet from your song because folks don't want to pay millions is silly. I think Hailey's college tuition and then some is well paid by now.
I can't understand why Apple chose to use an Eminem song! I love hip-hop since I was 8 yo, but since when Eminem can be considered a hip-hop artist? Strictly commercial stuff made by a greedy, narrow-minded and sick whitey from the ghetto (at least, that's what he shows to be).
First off, who cares if he's considered hip-hop or not. I don't think that in itself was a determining factor by apple.
Second, it doesn't matter if you like him or not, he is (was?) very popular, so trying to use his song makes sense from a commercial standpoint. (You're argument about his stuff being commericial kind of explains why it would be used in one - you wouldn't use some way-out-of-the-box artist's work that no one's heard of nor only a few appreciate FOR A COMMERCIAL).
Commercial or not...like him personally or not...the fact still remains that apple knowingly used someone's song without permission.
Anyways I don't know if this whole music thing was worth getting into. Seems like all the money Apple has made from ITMS and Ipod is going right back with all these law suits
I've been following this story since it came out and one thing that surprised me about today's report is: where's TBWA(sp?)/Chiat Day in all this? (While they may have screwed up this time, keep in mind they did the famous "1984" commercial that's considered one of the all-time greats.)
They are the ad agency who made the commercial in question. This whole thing is really their problem. They're the ones who are supposed to be expert on copyright law to tell whether the use of "Lose Yourself" was fair. Unless they can show that they told Apple that they couldn't use it and Apple told them to go ahead anyway, the blame for this fiasco goes squarely on the shoulders of the ad agency. Case closed, at least from Apple's point of view.
It doesn't matter whether Eminem is a saint or a bastard, whether he is a hack or a genius, he created the song "Lose Yourself" (which won an Academy Award) and it's his prerogrative to use it as he sees fit and deny use to anyone else without cause.
Anyone who doesn't respect basic intellectual property rights is not worthy to participate in this debate. The real issue is who is to blame for this theft; from what I've seen Apple's liability should be minimal.
...it's his prerogrative to use it as he sees fit and deny use to anyone else without cause.
Anyone who doesn't respect basic intellectual property rights is not worthy to participate in this debate. The real issue is who is to blame for this theft; from what I've seen Apple's liability should be minimal.
What about samples? I don't know how much of the song was used, but if it was a sample then I think there's only a minor fee that is to be paid and that fee was set long ago.
What about samples? I don't know how much of the song was used, but if it was a sample then I think there's only a minor fee that is to be paid and that fee was set long ago.
I know there are laws about "fair use" and when parts of works can be used for educational, satirical or critical purposes, but it seems to me that this case would have been thrown out long ago if the use were clearly legal.
I'm sure you are right about sampling (you didn't mention if permission needed to be granted or whether the sampler can just pay the fee and use it.) Getting perrmission to use works is also important -- oftentimes these are granted as a courtesy. Eminem explicitly refused to let his music be used for such purposes, so it will be interesting to hear how TBWA/Chiat Day deluded themselves into using it.
I know there are laws about "fair use" and when parts of works can be used for educational, satirical or critical purposes, but it seems to me that this case would have been thrown out long ago if the use were clearly legal.
I'm sure you are right about sampling (you didn't mention if permission needed to be granted or whether the sampler can just pay the fee and use it.) Getting perrmission to use works is also important -- oftentimes these are granted as a courtesy. Eminem explicitly refused to let his music be used for such purposes, so it will be interesting to hear how TBWA/Chiat Day deluded themselves into using it.
I don't even know if the amount of music they used was more or less than the length of a sample, but I thought it was important to note.
From what I understand you don't need to get permission for samples, you just pay the fee. And obviously samples are used for commercial (well, artistic) purposes, so I'm not sure how that would balance out either.
Lastly, if Eminem did explicitly refuse, then someone needs to be fired.
They didn't even use a sample.
Literally, no sound was taken at all from the song.
It was a kid singing the lyrics for 30 seconds.
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Serves Apple right. I hope they have to pay 10 million dollars for being stupid. Not because they tried to get clearance, failed and used the song but rather because there are PLENTY of artists who'd love the exposure and could have been had for much less. Look at Steriogram's success with "Walkie Talkie Man".
I like Eminem but he's "sold out" to me. He'd better start rapping about living in a mansion in the burbs or something. I think he has the right to make money but damn 10 million for a snippet?
on an aside. Note how you haven't seen Chris Tucker in a movie. He's given up 20 million dollars a film to travel to Africa and other areas to help people with Aids. I got respect for someone who's heart has been touched that deeply. Eminem's greed speaks volumes about his character.