Bad move Jobs... The education sector is where you want to plant your seeds first, to grow more customers.

I don't agree with what he said, as there are some very good teachers who would be let go if it weren't for unions. But with any union, you win some and you loose some.

Now, the real solution to the problem, is put some more money into the education sector. He's right, technology won't "Cure" the classroom, but if our government would put more money into the education system (and repeal the "No child left behind" act) then our classrooms would be benefiting our students a great deal more. I live in a state ranked 48th for per-pupil spending, and my mother is a teacher. I know our systems need an educational upgrade, especially in today's globalized market.

But again, bad move Jobs... don't attack the teachers nor the principals. If you want to attack, go for the government, and set up your own "Education Fund" or bolster what you already have to show that our education systems are in dire need of an upgrade.

oops, sorry for double post.

Since he spoke in Texas a few issues coming from a Texas and Poli Sci major:
1. Texas schools are teetering on bankruptcy
2. We have a teacher shortage, what's worse, fire the bad ones or have none?
3. Teachers are underpayed as it is, the last pay raise they got was federally mandated
4. State legislature is trying to do away with public schools in exchange for vouchers.
5. Governor beleives cutting taxes will solve ALL education problems.

Sure unions can overstep, but in the case of Texas teachers they are all that's keeping the schools from being a tightly wound, non-interactive prison for kids.

this is two fold....

1) yes they should be allowed to fire teachers
2) teachers should be paid more.

currently there is very little incentive for good people to turn to teaching.... in this country there is too little respect for teaching and the paid is too little to lure enough good people to do it...

we'll drop millions of dollars on bombs and the military, but are unwilling to pay teachers a decent salary.

When I have kids you can be sure that they are not going to be in the US public schools which with a few exceptions are a disgrace....

we've created an environment that ends up being an outlet for many people that graduated from university but were not great students themselves and then we give them a job that we can't fire them from for low performance....

Honestly, I've had some excellent teachers who I respect a LOT.

BUT the overwhelming majority of teachers were mediocre at best and made me dumber at worst.

I'm sure anyone that's been to university can attest that practically none of the best students ever choose to become teachers

I believe that Jobs, while possibly not taking the right diplomatic approach here, has a good point. Yet I do not blame the government. I blame the membership of the teachers union. If a principal cannot fire a poor educator, and I often hear groups of teachers complaining about poor educators in their schools, then the only ones to blame are the members. The new Sarbanes-Oxley Act (I believe) which requires more detailed reporting also requires the disclosure of where funds from unions are allocated. Did anyone read/hear where the teachers union is putting their money? The case is not limited to the teachers union though!

Unions, as pointed out in the speech, were formed when employers were abusing workers. They have outlived their usefulness at this point in the industrial and technological revolution.

Again, when things are wrong, stop looking for others to blame. Look inside and ask yourself where you made a mistake. The unions will change when the membership becomes enlightened enough to vote for leadership that will do the right thing!

RB

Watch out....I have no problem agreeing that educators are under paid, but I draw the line at the military reference.

You only have the freedom to post this response because of the sacrifice made by the military over the years.

RB

Quote:

Originally Posted by intlplby

this is two fold....

1) yes they should be allowed to fire teachers
2) teachers should be paid more.

currently there is very little incentive for good people to turn to teaching.... in this country there is too little respect for teaching and the paid is too little to lure enough good people to do it...

we'll drop millions of dollars on bombs and the military, but are unwilling to pay teachers a decent salary.

When I have kids you can be sure that they are not going to be in the US public schools which with a few exceptions are a disgrace....

we've created an environment that ends up being an outlet for many people that graduated from university but were not great students themselves and then we give them a job that we can't fire them from for low performance....

Honestly, I've had some excellent teachers who I respect a LOT.

BUT the overwhelming majority of teachers were mediocre at best and made me dumber at worst.

I'm sure anyone that's been to university can attest that practically none of the best students ever choose to become teachers

The only two teacher unions I've personally dealt with sucked. I hope that's not a national phenom but I found them a) ineffectual in securing benefits (i.e. the teachers had been working without contract for years AND one union had traded away their ability to strike for little gain) b) ineffectual at policing their own and c) mired in petty bickering/politics.

Given that teachers purchase books, paper, glue and other supplies out of their own pockets (well my ex did anyway) when supplies run out mid-year teachers need all the help they can get BUT the unions sucked big time.

And pay, while important, isn't always the critical issue. Otherwise teachers wouldn't often prefer to work at private schools for lower pay. Smaller class sizes and being able to teach rather than babysit often trumps salary.

And I while I was very impressed by some principals my impression was the higher up the management chain the dumber and more self serving the officials. I bet that you would find overpriced consultants and overpaid management staff in your nearly bankrupt texas school districts.

Vinea

How much should a teacher be making, or anyone for that matter?! If you're a teacher, and you're not happy with your pay, find a job that pays what you want. Simple. If more teachers do this, then at some point they will have to start paying more to keep teachers. It's a logical progression. This holds true with any job, not just teaching. Jobs was spot on, unions enable lazy people to maintain their high paying job for the minimum amount of work. That's pretty much the only "good" they do. If it's about money, then choose your career by the salary given. If it's about the career, then learn to make do with the salary given.