Aqara begins rollout of Matter firmware for M2 hubs

No, No, WE own M2. That’s our title. Too confusing if just ANYONE uses it.
LOL

The need for a 'hub' defeats the purpose of thread/matter IMHO. I don't want to add any more devices/apps to my network than what I really intend to add. I just added a nanoleaf (thread) light bulb to my fledgling smart home and it was quick and painless (may be the bulb could be little brighter). No need for new apps or bridges. Just directly add to whatever smart home app you are currently using. And that is how it should be.

bala1234 said:

The need for a 'hub' defeats the purpose of thread/matter IMHO. I don't want to add any more devices/apps to my network than what I really intend to add. I just added a nanoleaf (thread) light bulb to my fledgling smart home and it was quick and painless (may be the bulb could be little brighter). No need for new apps or bridges. Just directly add to whatever smart home app you are currently using. And that is how it should be.

Heya Bala! Really, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all and is in fact _the_ purpose of Matter which is to expand compatibility and support more devices than any single platform does. Zigbee has a massive install base already and hubs/bridges allow them to magically to start using all their existing devices with HomeKit, SmartThings, Alexa, and Google Home if they couldn't before.

Matter only works with Thread, Wi-Fi, and Ethernet and right now, there are VERY few Thead-enabled accessories on the market, especially sensors. There are no presence sensors with Thread, maybe one or two contact sensors, a single motion sensor, and not a lot else. Unless you plan on waiting a few years for devices to become available, you need to rely on ones that are Zigbee with a bridge as Bluetooth ones will never work with Matter.

I totally agree hubless is convenient but they can often be more expensive than their low-cost, hub-based counterparts and availability just isn't there yet for all the necessary devices for a good smart home. Maybe one day!

Andrew_OSU said:

bala1234 said:

The need for a 'hub' defeats the purpose of thread/matter IMHO. I don't want to add any more devices/apps to my network than what I really intend to add. I just added a nanoleaf (thread) light bulb to my fledgling smart home and it was quick and painless (may be the bulb could be little brighter). No need for new apps or bridges. Just directly add to whatever smart home app you are currently using. And that is how it should be.

Heya Bala! Really, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all and is in fact _the_ purpose of Matter which is to expand compatibility and support more devices than any single platform does. Zigbee has a massive install base already and hubs/bridges allow them to magically to start using all their existing devices with HomeKit, SmartThings, Alexa, and Google Home if they couldn't before.

Matter only works with Thread, Wi-Fi, and Ethernet and right now, there are VERY few Thead-enabled accessories on the market, especially sensors. There are no presence sensors with Thread, maybe one or two contact sensors, a single motion sensor, and not a lot else. Unless you plan on waiting a few years for devices to become available, you need to rely on ones that are Zigbee with a bridge as Bluetooth ones will never work with Matter.

I totally agree hubless is convenient but they can often be more expensive than their low-cost, hub-based counterparts and availability just isn't there yet for all the necessary devices for a good smart home. Maybe one day!

Yeah! I have to concede if you have zigbee devices (and hub) in your home, this is the best solution to hop on to the Matter bandwagon. But then again why would you need to? Your existing zigbee devices already work with your smart home setup. I was more speaking toward buying new devices. Presumably if you just buy pure thread devices (Again conceding that I may have to 'plan on waiting a few years') going forward they can just co-exist with your zigbee devices in the setup with/without upgrading your bridge/hub to matter. Personally though I think its worth waiting it out, just to get rid of all the hubs and smart home apps at some point. All the zigbee device makers will come around to natively supporting thread without required hubs at some point as the users realize the futility of it.

Andrew_OSU said:

bala1234 said:

The need for a 'hub' defeats the purpose of thread/matter IMHO. I don't want to add any more devices/apps to my network than what I really intend to add. I just added a nanoleaf (thread) light bulb to my fledgling smart home and it was quick and painless (may be the bulb could be little brighter). No need for new apps or bridges. Just directly add to whatever smart home app you are currently using. And that is how it should be.

Heya Bala! Really, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all and is in fact _the_ purpose of Matter which is to expand compatibility and support more devices than any single platform does. Zigbee has a massive install base already and hubs/bridges allow them to magically to start using all their existing devices with HomeKit, SmartThings, Alexa, and Google Home if they couldn't before.

Matter only works with Thread, Wi-Fi, and Ethernet and right now, there are VERY few Thead-enabled accessories on the market, especially sensors. There are no presence sensors with Thread, maybe one or two contact sensors, a single motion sensor, and not a lot else. Unless you plan on waiting a few years for devices to become available, you need to rely on ones that are Zigbee with a bridge as Bluetooth ones will never work with Matter.

I totally agree hubless is convenient but they can often be more expensive than their low-cost, hub-based counterparts and availability just isn't there yet for all the necessary devices for a good smart home. Maybe one day!

I agree. I think there is still some lingering user confusion about the relationship between Matter and Thread, especially when I see statements that glom the two layers together, like “Matter/Thread” as if the two are interchangeable. They are not.

Matter is an overarching application level standard for device interoperability. It covers things like defining standard device types, device identity, lights, presence sensors, actuators like switches, and eventually - cameras. It supports interfaces to a set of independent communication standards including WiFi, Bluetooth, and Thread, but those standards also exist on their own and are not bound to Matter.

Thread, WiFi, Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Bluetooth LE are all independent connectivity standards that follow an Open System Interconnection (OSI) 7-layer model that includes everything from protocol, e.g., TCP/P, to physical layer implementations, including wire-level signaling and radio communication frequencies. Some of these are natively supported within the Matter standard, like Thread, WiFi, and Bluetooth, while others are not. Anything that is not natively supported, like Zigbee and Z-Wave, require a router/hub to allow devices on a non-native (from a Matter perspective) network to be seen in a Matter application.

Saying that a router/hub defeats the purpose of Matter is like saying that your WiFi access points on your home network defeat the purpose of your home network, which is inherently wired Ethernet if you’re connection is coming in through a cable of some sort. The simple fact is that Zigbee and Z-Wave are using totally different communication standards than WiFi or Thread, all the way down to the radios and radio frequencies used, so getting from one of those networks to a Matter supported network will require a router/hub just like going from wired Ethernet to WiFi requires a router/hub. (I hate using the word “hub,” but it’s unfortunately being misused by product makers.) 

In my opinion, the biggest challenge for Matter adoption is HomeKit. HomeKit is also an application layer standard but a proprietary one. HomeKit was trying to do pretty much everything that Matter intended to do, like supporting Thread, but doing it in an Apple centric manner. Apple’s early Thread support in HomeKit only supported Apple devices. It’s still not clear to me whether Apple will consider its Home app to be a pure Matter client or a hybrid Matter + HomeKit client. The Matter standard hasn’t caught up to HomeKit for some devices, like cameras, so until Matter and HomeKit achieve functional parity I expect we’ll still see some disconnects between the two and HomeKit and the Home app acting as a superset on top of Matter. I just wish the Home app wasn’t so functionally underpowered.