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Thursday, August 30, 2007, 11:00 am
Associated Press delves into legalities of iPhone unlocking
With several iPhone unlocking methods gaining traction over the past week, the Associated Press has done some investigating into the legalities of the matter and is reporting that unlocking the phone for one's personal use appears to be legal.On the other hand, hackers who contrive such unlocking solutions with the intent to profit from them are likely to face legal problems. At least one of the companies hoping to make money by unlocking iPhones told the AP that it is hesitating after calls from lawyers representing AT&T, the exclusive U.S. wireless provider for iPhone.
"Whether people can make profits from software that hacks the iPhone is going to depend very much on exactly what was done to develop that software and what does that software do," said Bart Showalter, head of the Intellectual Property practice group at law firm Baker Botts in Dallas.
Uniquephones.com, an outfit based in Northern Ireland, says nearly half a million people have expressed interest in its $25 iPhone unlocking solution. The firm had planned to release the software earlier this month but is now seeking legal advice after having received some 'friendly advice' from AT&T's attorneys.
Another firm, iphonesimfree.com, has said it plans to release its own iPhone unlocking software in a few days. Meanwhile, 17-year-old George Hotz managed to unlock his iPhone all by himself last week, using both software and hardware modifications. He then attempted to sell the unlocked phone on eBay but ended the auction after fake bids apparently sent the price to $100 million.
Instead, Hotz traded the unlocked phone for "a sweet Nissan 350Z" and three iPhones, according to his blog.
According to the AP, The Copyright Office of the Library of Congress last year issued a statement that unlocking cell phones for one's own use, for instance to place calls with a different carrier, was not a violation of copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
However, the AP added in its report that a Florida-based company selling phones that use prepaid plans, won an injunction in February against a couple who bought its phones in large numbers and resold them unlocked.
Further details are available in the AP's thorough report on the matter.
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Previous Comments View All
Don't get confused here. Prepaid phones are "subsidized" because you are locked-in to the provider at their rates when you purchase the phone and they make up the price difference as you use up and refill your minutes.
The iPhone is unsubsidized so you are paying full retail price. If you cancel you agreement with AT&T within 14 days, the phone is still yours to do with as you please. If you want to unlock it and use it on T-Mobile or overseas, that is your legal right and it does not conflict with AT&T's terms of service or anything else.
As I've stated before, Apple knew this would happen. Apple will have (a) "killer app(s)" that will keep 99% of iPhone users on their preferred networks as they will only work through the modified carrier networks. This is the only way to maintain the contracts with the carriers. Apple and the carriers desperately want the additional funds from the monthly dues. They certainly have a contingency plan i place that doesn't require expensive legal fees, that is for certain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pubguy 
If you cancel you agreement with AT&T within 14 days, the phone is still yours to do with as you please. If you want to unlock it and use it on T-Mobile or overseas, that is your legal right and it does not conflict with AT&T's terms of service or anything else.
If you cancel you agreement with AT&T within 14 days, the phone is still yours to do with as you please. If you want to unlock it and use it on T-Mobile or overseas, that is your legal right and it does not conflict with AT&T's terms of service or anything else.
You are mistaken. You don't need to signup with ANY carrier to purchase an iPhone. Unles of ofcure, you were refering to people who recently purchased an iPhone and now want to get an unlocked phone. In that case, ignore my post.
Mr. Sulu, set phasers to 'unlock'... I hope the unlocking frenzy continues unabated. All this will do is keep the other cell providers wondering what the next move will be by Apple, and keep up the pressure to innovate and improve existing offerings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
As I've stated before, Apple knew this would happen. Apple will have (a) "killer app(s)" that will keep 99% of iPhone users on their preferred networks as they will only work through the modified carrier networks. This is the only way to maintain the contracts with the carriers. Apple and the carriers desperately want the additional funds from the monthly dues. They certainly have a contingency plan i place that doesn't require expensive legal fees, that is for certain.
As I've stated before, Apple knew this would happen. Apple will have (a) "killer app(s)" that will keep 99% of iPhone users on their preferred networks as they will only work through the modified carrier networks. This is the only way to maintain the contracts with the carriers. Apple and the carriers desperately want the additional funds from the monthly dues. They certainly have a contingency plan i place that doesn't require expensive legal fees, that is for certain.
So you're telling us that if Apple could sell 1 million more units because it's unlocked that they would rather not becuase they wouldn't get a monthy fee from ATT? Are you kidding?
you're right about one thing the carrier desperately wants the monthly fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02
So you're telling us that if Apple could sell 1 million more units because it's unlocked that they would rather not becuase they wouldn't get a monthy fee from ATT? Are you kidding?
you're right about one thing the carrier desperately wants the monthly fee.
So you're telling us that if Apple could sell 1 million more units because it's unlocked that they would rather not becuase they wouldn't get a monthy fee from ATT? Are you kidding?
you're right about one thing the carrier desperately wants the monthly fee.
An so does Apple. Sales numbers and marketshare mean nothing if you don't have the profits to back it up.
By all reports posted here on AI by analysts, net profits from AT&T's monthly payments to Apple (especially from new subscribers) greatly outweigh the net profits of hardware sale of each iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pubguy
Don't get confused here. Prepaid phones are "subsidized" because you are locked-in to the provider at their rates when you purchase the phone and they make up the price difference as you use up and refill your minutes.
Don't get confused here. Prepaid phones are "subsidized" because you are locked-in to the provider at their rates when you purchase the phone and they make up the price difference as you use up and refill your minutes.
Well, technically, they make up the difference because you are locked into the carrier for a time period, and they have an early termination fee that usually nearly covers the difference in the subsidy. Being locked into time is more important than rates here because rates usually do down in this market.
Quote:
The iPhone is unsubsidized so you are paying full retail price.
Yawn. This has been gone over numerous times. The iPhone is subsidized. Apple gets money from AT&T via your service plan. That is how all phone subsidies work. If some people on this site want to pretend otherwise or Apple wants to do some kind of clever labeling of their iPhone finances, more power to you and them. I played with the numbers in another thread on this site, and Apple gets roughly the same money as other phone producers do (though they get a decent premium for getting people to switch from other carriers to AT&T).
And no the DCMA has nothing to do with phones. DMCA was designed to protect digital media copyrights, i.e. audio, video, books, etc. If you hacked the iPhone to illegally play DRM'd music/video or read DRM'd e-books, then you'd be volating DMCA. You bought the phone, you can do pretty much whatever else you darn well please with it.
I presume AT&T has a early termination fee in place to protect themselves from people unlocking the phone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
With several iPhone unlocking methods gaining traction over the past week, the Associated Press has done some investigating into the legalities of the matter and is reporting that unlocking the phone for one's personal use appears to be legal.
On the other hand, hackers who contrive such unlocking solutions with the intent to profit from them are likely to face legal problems. At least one of the companies hoping to make money by unlocking iPhones told the AP that it is hesitating after calls from lawyers representing AT&T, the exclusive U.S. wireless provider for iPhone.
"Whether people can make profits from software that hacks the iPhone is going to depend very much on exactly what was done to develop that software and what does that software do," said Bart Showalter, head of the Intellectual Property practice group at law firm Baker Botts in Dallas.
Uniquephones.com, an outfit based in Northern Ireland, says nearly half a million people have expressed interest in its $25 iPhone unlocking solution. The firm had planned to release the software earlier this month but is now seeking legal advice after having received some 'friendly advice' from AT&T's attorneys.
According to the AP, The Copyright Office of the Library of Congress last year issued a statement that unlocking cell phones for one's own use, for instance to place calls with a different carrier, was not a violation of copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
With several iPhone unlocking methods gaining traction over the past week, the Associated Press has done some investigating into the legalities of the matter and is reporting that unlocking the phone for one's personal use appears to be legal.
On the other hand, hackers who contrive such unlocking solutions with the intent to profit from them are likely to face legal problems. At least one of the companies hoping to make money by unlocking iPhones told the AP that it is hesitating after calls from lawyers representing AT&T, the exclusive U.S. wireless provider for iPhone.
"Whether people can make profits from software that hacks the iPhone is going to depend very much on exactly what was done to develop that software and what does that software do," said Bart Showalter, head of the Intellectual Property practice group at law firm Baker Botts in Dallas.
Uniquephones.com, an outfit based in Northern Ireland, says nearly half a million people have expressed interest in its $25 iPhone unlocking solution. The firm had planned to release the software earlier this month but is now seeking legal advice after having received some 'friendly advice' from AT&T's attorneys.
According to the AP, The Copyright Office of the Library of Congress last year issued a statement that unlocking cell phones for one's own use, for instance to place calls with a different carrier, was not a violation of copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
500,000 showing interests, WOW. I can see this getting somewhat messy with regards to having phones out there that develop problems, who ya gonna call, not 'GhostBusters'. What are other peoples views on the following bullet points:
If hackers recoded Apple's iPhone software code to unlock, does that infringe on Apple's rights regarding their original software code that they can sick Apple Legal on whoever or at the very least not give the one year customer support the customer has starting at the date of purchase?
Does such hacker software void any warranty with Apple if they don't have to open the casing of the actual hardware (iPhone) itself?
What if they purchased Apple Care with iPhone and used hacker software to unlock, if Warranty IS voided, can "customer" get Apple Support with Apple Care or not, and if not, can the customer get a refund of the money paid to Apple for said Apple Care Protection since they are not going to be provided support service or is tough luck to the buyer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
However, the AP added in its report that a Florida-based company selling phones that use prepaid plans, won an injunction in February against a couple who bought its phones in large numbers and resold them unlocked.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
However, the AP added in its report that a Florida-based company selling phones that use prepaid plans, won an injunction in February against a couple who bought its phones in large numbers and resold them unlocked.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
"a couple who bought its phones in large numbers and resold them unlocked", but I thought, according to a lot of posters here, that if you bought it, it was yours to do with anyway you pleased?
Don't give me "locked" and "unlocked" status, I buy t-shirts on a wholesale "locked" price to send in and have them screen printed for resale by me. I can, at times, also buy same t-shirt on sale "unlocked" from the wholesalers normal price (I just make a little extra profit) but I still get to do with it (resale shirts) anyway I please. What's the dif with what the couple from FL buying subsidized phones if you are able to do anything you want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe
Yawn. This has been gone over numerous times. The iPhone is subsidized. Apple gets money from AT&T via your service plan. That is how all phone subsidies work. If some people on this site want to pretend otherwise or Apple wants to do some kind of clever labeling of their iPhone finances, more power to you and them. I played with the numbers in another thread on this site, and Apple gets roughly the same money as other phone producers do (though they get a decent premium for getting people to switch from other carriers to AT&T).
Yawn. This has been gone over numerous times. The iPhone is subsidized. Apple gets money from AT&T via your service plan. That is how all phone subsidies work. If some people on this site want to pretend otherwise or Apple wants to do some kind of clever labeling of their iPhone finances, more power to you and them. I played with the numbers in another thread on this site, and Apple gets roughly the same money as other phone producers do (though they get a decent premium for getting people to switch from other carriers to AT&T).
Apple may still be getting it's cut from AT&T, but That is NOT how all phone subsidies work. The carrier pays the manufacturer a pre-determined fee based on the sale on the device. This happens at the intital sale and has absolutely nothing to do with obtaining monthly service dues. This is a new paradigm in the way manufacturers interact with carriers, it's the main reason Verozon turned Apple down, and it's the biggest issue Apple and AT&T are facing with these unlocking reports.
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Go ahead, unlock them, then we'll get to hear reports from people whining because all the features don't work right. You know that's what'll happen. I'm certain they'll be unlocked eventually, it just makes more sense at this point to leave it with one carrier until they are certain everything will work correctly.