Google welcomes Apple's move to adopt RCS

Google asked EU to open iMessages. That won't happen. Android users are now stuck with RCS while iPhone users get the best of both worlds. And Google... from "only Android supports Flash" to "only Android supports RCS". This is just another USP being taken away from Android. Smart move by Apple.

nubus said:

Google asked EU to open iMessages. That won't happen. Android users are now stuck with RCS while iPhone users get the best of both worlds. And Google... from "only Android supports Flash" to "only Android supports RCS". This is just another USP being taken away from Android. Smart move by Apple.

Google doesn't want the job of securing RCS and it's privacy. They HAD to because the carriers and the GSMA refused to accept the responsibility. They'll dance in the rain when they no longer have to spend money and resources on RCS things that should not have had to. 

gatorguy said:

nubus said:

Google asked EU to open iMessages. That won't happen. Android users are now stuck with RCS while iPhone users get the best of both worlds. And Google... from "only Android supports Flash" to "only Android supports RCS". This is just another USP being taken away from Android. Smart move by Apple.

Google doesn't want the job of securing RCS and it's privacy. They HAD to because the carriers and the GSMA refused to accept the responsibility. They'll dance in the rain when they no longer have to spend money and resources on RCS things that should not have had to. 

I agree with you here. The carriers are dog slow at moving anything forward. They're happy to just sit back and make money off the cellular infrastructure they own/lease/had created for them by governments. They typically get forced to move forward by tech companies who need new infrastructure for their devices. So in that sense, I'm happy that Google (and now Apple) are pushing them forward on this.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that Google isn't interested since, if the carriers go with their RCS server/router technology (Jibe), that'll at least give them information about who's connected to who in the world with the knowledge of user/customer IDs and who is messaging who (even if they can't see the content of those messages). I'm fairly certain this is why Apple is pushing back on the E2EE side of things and working with GSMA.

auxio said:

gatorguy said:

nubus said:

Google asked EU to open iMessages. That won't happen. Android users are now stuck with RCS while iPhone users get the best of both worlds. And Google... from "only Android supports Flash" to "only Android supports RCS". This is just another USP being taken away from Android. Smart move by Apple.

Google doesn't want the job of securing RCS and it's privacy. They HAD to because the carriers and the GSMA refused to accept the responsibility. They'll dance in the rain when they no longer have to spend money and resources on RCS things that should not have had to. 

I agree with you here. The carriers are dog slow at moving anything forward. They're happy to just sit back and make money off the cellular infrastructure they own/lease/had created for them by governments. They typically get forced to move forward by tech companies who need new infrastructure for their devices. So in that sense, I'm happy that Google (and now Apple) are pushing them forward on this.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that Google isn't interested since, if the carriers go with their RCS server/router technology (Jibe), that'll at least give them information about who's connected to who in the world with the knowledge of user/customer IDs and who is messaging who (even if they can't see the content of those messages). I'm fairly certain this is why Apple is pushing back on the E2EE side of things and working with GSMA.

Nah, that isn't the reason. It is nuts how certain Apple fans have convinced themselves that everyone who competes with Apple is bad, including even companies that were once major Apple partners and suppliers. 
1. Google actually had a GREAT messaging strategy in its pre-Android and early Android days (Google Chat - which included video - and Google Voice). Indeed, it even preceded Apple's efforts in this area. Problem: they trashed it to compete with Facebook, resulting in the Google Hangouts debacle.
2. After Google Hangouts failed, Google realized the need to compete with iMessage. So they created Allo (messages) and Duo (video). Allo failed and was yanked. Duo was very successful, but only outside the U.S. Google also created Meet to kinda sorta replace Hangouts for its enterprise Workspace customers.
3. With Duo and Meet video was "fine" but Google still needed a modern messaging protocol to replace the ancient insecure SMS/MMS. So Google chose RCS, which had originally been proposed years ago but failed because no one adopted it. It was never supposed to compete with iMessage. After the failure of Duo, Hangouts and Allo - plus Chat/Voice never reaching its potential - Google really did merely want a better messaging client. 

So I don't get people who attribute nefarious intent on Google's part here. Was Google supposed to stick with a 1980s messaging protocol just to maintain Apple's advantage? Or is adopting rich text support, group chat support and end-to-end encryption somehow bad? You have some desire to punish people for choosing not to buy iPhones by forcing outdated insecure tech on them or something? Yes, Google maintains the servers but what choice did they have? The mobile carriers could have but refused. Google solved a real problem for their users that no one - the carriers, regulators, Apple - was going to lift a finger to. I don't see how this makes them the bad guy.

Apple isn't going to use Google's encryption? You know who is happy about that? Google. Google has been trying to get GSMA to adopt encryption for years. Whether Apple gets GSMA to adopt it or implements their own solution, it benefits Apple. So long as Apple handles the messages properly it doesn't matter. So no, it isn't some scheme to invade iPhone user's privacy. Google was already perfectly capable of doing that already with SMS/MMS and so was everybody else. That's why Apple's refusal to adopt RCS so long never made sense. To put it another way, it proves that Apple's alleged focus on privacy was just marketing. Apple knew that its consumers were communicating with Android device owners using very insecure SMS/MMS and didn't lift a finger. 

This isn't necessarily a loss for Apple - the green and blue bubble thing will still exist - but it is definitely a win for Google and Android users. And there are absolutely no downsides either. 

thadec said:

auxio said:

gatorguy said:

nubus said:

Google asked EU to open iMessages. That won't happen. Android users are now stuck with RCS while iPhone users get the best of both worlds. And Google... from "only Android supports Flash" to "only Android supports RCS". This is just another USP being taken away from Android. Smart move by Apple.

Google doesn't want the job of securing RCS and it's privacy. They HAD to because the carriers and the GSMA refused to accept the responsibility. They'll dance in the rain when they no longer have to spend money and resources on RCS things that should not have had to. 

I agree with you here. The carriers are dog slow at moving anything forward. They're happy to just sit back and make money off the cellular infrastructure they own/lease/had created for them by governments. They typically get forced to move forward by tech companies who need new infrastructure for their devices. So in that sense, I'm happy that Google (and now Apple) are pushing them forward on this.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that Google isn't interested since, if the carriers go with their RCS server/router technology (Jibe), that'll at least give them information about who's connected to who in the world with the knowledge of user/customer IDs and who is messaging who (even if they can't see the content of those messages). I'm fairly certain this is why Apple is pushing back on the E2EE side of things and working with GSMA.

Nah, that isn't the reason. It is nuts how certain Apple fans have convinced themselves that everyone who competes with Apple is bad, including even companies that were once major Apple partners and suppliers. 
1. Google actually had a GREAT messaging strategy in its pre-Android and early Android days (Google Chat - which included video - and Google Voice). Indeed, it even preceded Apple's efforts in this area. Problem: they trashed it to compete with Facebook, resulting in the Google Hangouts debacle.
2. After Google Hangouts failed, Google realized the need to compete with iMessage. So they created Allo (messages) and Duo (video). Allo failed and was yanked. Duo was very successful, but only outside the U.S. Google also created Meet to kinda sorta replace Hangouts for its enterprise Workspace customers.
3. With Duo and Meet video was "fine" but Google still needed a modern messaging protocol to replace the ancient insecure SMS/MMS. So Google chose RCS, which had originally been proposed years ago but failed because no one adopted it. It was never supposed to compete with iMessage. After the failure of Duo, Hangouts and Allo - plus Chat/Voice never reaching its potential - Google really did merely want a better messaging client. 

So I don't get people who attribute nefarious intent on Google's part here. Was Google supposed to stick with a 1980s messaging protocol just to maintain Apple's advantage? Or is adopting rich text support, group chat support and end-to-end encryption somehow bad? You have some desire to punish people for choosing not to buy iPhones by forcing outdated insecure tech on them or something? Yes, Google maintains the servers but what choice did they have? The mobile carriers could have but refused. Google solved a real problem for their users that no one - the carriers, regulators, Apple - was going to lift a finger to. I don't see how this makes them the bad guy.

Apple isn't going to use Google's encryption? You know who is happy about that? Google. Google has been trying to get GSMA to adopt encryption for years. Whether Apple gets GSMA to adopt it or implements their own solution, it benefits Apple. So long as Apple handles the messages properly it doesn't matter. So no, it isn't some scheme to invade iPhone user's privacy. Google was already perfectly capable of doing that already with SMS/MMS and so was everybody else. That's why Apple's refusal to adopt RCS so long never made sense. To put it another way, it proves that Apple's alleged focus on privacy was just marketing. Apple knew that its consumers were communicating with Android device owners using very insecure SMS/MMS and didn't lift a finger. 

This isn't necessarily a loss for Apple - the green and blue bubble thing will still exist - but it is definitely a win for Google and Android users. And there are absolutely no downsides either. 

This has nothing to do with Google wanting to compete with Apple iMessage that is on iOS. This has to do with Google coming up with a messaging service that can compete with WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger on Android. Google has failed with over half a dozen messaging services so far. Though some say that couple of them were very good, they never gained traction against WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger, so Google just gave up on them. If any one of them had gained traction against WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger, Google would not be hosting RCS for the telecoms today. And trying to have Google Messages the telecoms default client for their RCS messaging.

So Google came up with having the carriers adopt RCS on Google servers. It's the reason why they acquired Jibe Mobile to begin with. Telecoms companies that want to adopt RCS can easily do so by letting Google host their RCS messaging on Jibe Mobile servers. And by doing this, they can use Google version of RCS (which is only available by using Google Messages as the client on Android phones) and have E2EE with all the other telecoms using Jibe Mobile servers. In all the years that Google have been working on getting telecoms to adopt RCS, they have not figured out a way to make it so that each telecom can host their own RCS and still have E2EE with the other telecoms RCS services, without any of them having to be hosted on Google servers. Not sure if Google really wanted that.

But Google RCS, which been around for years now, still can't compete with WhatsApp and Facebbok Messenger. So Google figured that if they got Apple to adopt Google RCS, they would have the hook they need to get more Android users to use Google Messages. Google has locked down Google RCS with E2EE, to being only available with Google  Messages and Samsung Messages. So Android users with a lot of friends that are using iPhone iMessages, will more likely  keep using Google Messages as their main messaging service. Which they are not doing now, as most Android users are still using Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger as their main messaging service to message with their friend using iPhones. They have no need to use Google Messages.

But Apple threw a monkey into the wench by not supporting Google E2EE version of RCS. In order to do that (for now), Apple would have to host their iMessage on Google servers. Like how all the other telecoms have to do it, in order to offer E2EE with Google version of RCS. By Apple only adopting the standard RCS (with no E2EE), any messaging service can receive RCS messages from an iPhone that is using iMessage. This is not ideal for Google at all. Android users would not need to use Google Messages to send and receive standard RCS messages that are not E2EEd. Much like what they can now do with SMS, only RCS has more features, even without E2EE. And RCS without E2EE will not be secure as messages with the E2EE from WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger.

BTW- the telecoms are not giving up on SMS as their standard messaging service. SMS is still a popular messaging service with businesses and the telecoms still makes money from it. The reason why the teleocoms gave up on RCS was because they could not figure out a way to monetize it, as there are plenty of free messaging services that are both more secure and with more features, than what they can offer with RCS. The telecoms were not willing to pour money into offering something that competes with something better, that is available for free, on both Android and iOS mobile phones. But Google business model is the gold standard of how to monetize something that is offered for free.