iPhone XS & Apple Watch reviews, Marzipan, Salesforce, and much more on the AppleInsider Podcast

JayinTech said:

Hi Guys,

I enjoyed the reviews on Apple Watch and MacOS Mojave.  I'm looking forward to upgrading my system to Mojave from Sierra, especially for the latest versions of FCPX and Compressor.

One thing I that bugged me in this episode was the amount of time spent on wishing iOS and the Mac would become one product. If my desktop-based MacOS turned into iOS I would burn my macbook pro and walk away.  I just feel like you guys just don't get it, the desktop OS version of the Mac is what I turn to when I need power: virtual machines, multitasking, studio-level audio production and video editing.  There's no accommodation for these workflows on an iPhone.  I tested LumaFusion on the iPad (imo best video editor for the tablet there is) and it's pretty good for basic stuff.  But you're not going to be doing a 4K workflow or anything more advanced just on the iPad itself.  I feel it's just stupid to proselytize merging iOS and the Mac it like it's the future.

Also, let's stop with this "take the training wheels off the iPad".  The iPad an incredible tool for day-to-day needs as long as it's connected to a cloud-based file system (iCloud, Dropbox, etc).  Office workflows, text-based editing, web apps, Keynote, etc. it works great. Oh yeah, photo editing - the iPad shines here.  There are no training wheels on the iPad when editing photos (Snapseed fan), it's fantastic.  Once Apple gets their act together as to how the Photos app syncs your edited photos from a device without creating doubles of everything, or without needing $50/month on iCloud just so your library fits in the cloud, then that experience will be truly superb.

iOS and MacOS are different tools for different things.  I never want to edit photos on my macbook again and I have no desire to edit video on in iPhone.

Neil doesn't want them to become one product, he wants the iPad to stop being intentionally crippled to preserve the Mac's place in the lineup.

My position was that iOS is the dominant, majority product, that it looks as if the long view is that iOS takes over, and we still have things we call Macs - they run iOS with keyboard and trackpad.

If you think the iPad is its final form, it makes sense to stop saying 'take the training wheels off.' I don't think that we're anywhere near its final form.

And I say this as a user who is most productive on a Mac, not an iPad. OS X is older now than classic Mac OS was when OS X was introduced. That seems incredible to me, but it's true. macOS is mature, but I don't think it's done evolving, and it looks as if it evolves by borrowing bits back from iOS. Just because you can only do a 4K workflow or VM on a Mac today, doesn't mean that's how it will always be.

vmarks said:

JayinTech said:

Hi Guys,

I enjoyed the reviews on Apple Watch and MacOS Mojave.  I'm looking forward to upgrading my system to Mojave from Sierra, especially for the latest versions of FCPX and Compressor.

One thing I that bugged me in this episode was the amount of time spent on wishing iOS and the Mac would become one product. If my desktop-based MacOS turned into iOS I would burn my macbook pro and walk away.  I just feel like you guys just don't get it, the desktop OS version of the Mac is what I turn to when I need power: virtual machines, multitasking, studio-level audio production and video editing.  There's no accommodation for these workflows on an iPhone.  I tested LumaFusion on the iPad (imo best video editor for the tablet there is) and it's pretty good for basic stuff.  But you're not going to be doing a 4K workflow or anything more advanced just on the iPad itself.  I feel it's just stupid to proselytize merging iOS and the Mac it like it's the future.

Also, let's stop with this "take the training wheels off the iPad".  The iPad an incredible tool for day-to-day needs as long as it's connected to a cloud-based file system (iCloud, Dropbox, etc).  Office workflows, text-based editing, web apps, Keynote, etc. it works great. Oh yeah, photo editing - the iPad shines here.  There are no training wheels on the iPad when editing photos (Snapseed fan), it's fantastic.  Once Apple gets their act together as to how the Photos app syncs your edited photos from a device without creating doubles of everything, or without needing $50/month on iCloud just so your library fits in the cloud, then that experience will be truly superb.

iOS and MacOS are different tools for different things.  I never want to edit photos on my macbook again and I have no desire to edit video on in iPhone.

Neil doesn't want them to become one product, he wants the iPad to stop being intentionally crippled to preserve the Mac's place in the lineup.

My position was that iOS is the dominant, majority product, that it looks as if the long view is that iOS takes over, and we still have things we call Macs - they run iOS with keyboard and trackpad.

If you think the iPad is its final form, it makes sense to stop saying 'take the training wheels off.' I don't think that we're anywhere near its final form.

And I say this as a user who is most productive on a Mac, not an iPad. OS X is older now than classic Mac OS was when OS X was introduced. That seems incredible to me, but it's true. macOS is mature, but I don't think it's done evolving, and it looks as if it evolves by borrowing bits back from iOS. Just because you can only do a 4K workflow or VM on a Mac today, doesn't mean that's how it will always be.

In the spirit of cannibalizing their own products, I for one hope Apple continues to grow the iPad line as if it were the actual future of Apple, not just a minor product line.

vmarks said:
And I say this as a user who is most productive on a Mac, not an iPad. OS X is older now than classic Mac OS was when OS X was introduced. That seems incredible to me, but it's true. macOS is mature, but I don't think it's done evolving, and it looks as if it evolves by borrowing bits back from iOS. Just because you can only do a 4K workflow or VM on a Mac today, doesn't mean that's how it will always be.

What does age have to do with it though. The problem I've been having is that while some new, welcomed features have certainly been added to macOS over the last decade, it has more devolved in terms of workflow productivity due to work by people who don't anymore get UI, coupled with cobbled attempts to merge iOS and cloud functionality into it.

But, it isn't so much about hardware capabilities (to a point). Even if an iPad had the processing power of the Mac, and the software were optimal, etc., it would still be better to edit video on a 'workstation' like setup with big monitors, keyboard, mouse/trackpad, etc. I suppose if you can just drop your iPad into a 'stand' and do this, that's fine, but I think there is also physics involved (i.e.: an iPad simply can't dissipate the heat, so can't perform to the level of the same kind of hardware in a desktop configuration).

This ultimately, though, gets down to UI and ergonomics. There are workflow/productivity advantages to each kind of setup. Touch vs 'desktop' isn't just about the form-factor of the device, but about a way of working. Mobile/touch interfaces will always be more productive at some things while worse at the other. Same for 'desktop' setups. I simply don't see (or can't imagine) a convergence of the two.

***
Also... what was that statement about the Mac App Store being a dumpster fire about? The apps available? The attention being paid to it? Features?

IMO, the iOS app store used to be reasonably good, and now has become a dumpster fire. The Mac App Store is actually pretty nice to use. But, I guess my focus is too much on UI? I think iOS's App Store now has a horrific UI.

cgWerks said:

vmarks said:
And I say this as a user who is most productive on a Mac, not an iPad. OS X is older now than classic Mac OS was when OS X was introduced. That seems incredible to me, but it's true. macOS is mature, but I don't think it's done evolving, and it looks as if it evolves by borrowing bits back from iOS. Just because you can only do a 4K workflow or VM on a Mac today, doesn't mean that's how it will always be.

What does age have to do with it though. The problem I've been having is that while some new, welcomed features have certainly been added to macOS over the last decade, it has more devolved in terms of workflow productivity due to work by people who don't anymore get UI, coupled with cobbled attempts to merge iOS and cloud functionality into it.

But, it isn't so much about hardware capabilities (to a point). Even if an iPad had the processing power of the Mac, and the software were optimal, etc., it would still be better to edit video on a 'workstation' like setup with big monitors, keyboard, mouse/trackpad, etc. I suppose if you can just drop your iPad into a 'stand' and do this, that's fine, but I think there is also physics involved (i.e.: an iPad simply can't dissipate the heat, so can't perform to the level of the same kind of hardware in a desktop configuration).

This ultimately, though, gets down to UI and ergonomics. There are workflow/productivity advantages to each kind of setup. Touch vs 'desktop' isn't just about the form-factor of the device, but about a way of working. Mobile/touch interfaces will always be more productive at some things while worse at the other. Same for 'desktop' setups. I simply don't see (or can't imagine) a convergence of the two.

***
Also... what was that statement about the Mac App Store being a dumpster fire about? The apps available? The attention being paid to it? Features?

IMO, the iOS app store used to be reasonably good, and now has become a dumpster fire. The Mac App Store is actually pretty nice to use. But, I guess my focus is too much on UI? I think iOS's App Store now has a horrific UI.

I was speaking about software capabilities more than hardware. The hardware is abstracted away by the software.

The ship sailed on consistent UI a long time ago. 

When I was speaking about App Stores, I was speaking about function, and population of apps.