Preorders for iPhone 13 outpace iPhone 12, likely due to Huawei struggles

Even with 5G, Huawei just isn’t that great. 

9secondkox2 said:

Even with 5G, Huawei just isn’t that great. 

Anyone who’s used both will auto choose the iPhone. 

And the pricing strategy for the 13 is brilliant. 

Still would like to see Apple have an exit strategy from China. 

Can you give examples to back that claim up?

Huawei has consistently been the top of the camera ratings. To many, it still is!

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p50-pro-camera-review-outstanding-in-all-areas/

It has some of the best WiFi converged capabilities on the market. It has probably one of the best reputations out there for battery life. Its charging technologies (wired or wireless, normal or reversed) are way ahead of Apple's. So are its antenna technologies. It had an on SoC 5G modem before Apple had 5G (bolted on).

"Anyone who's used both will auto choose an iPhone". 

No. The article is basically saying the complete opposite of that!

Huawei is currently re-jigging its supply chain to irradicate US technology dependencies.

US semi conductor manufacturers are so worried about losing Huawei trade that the semi conductor association wrote directly to the White House warning of the impact of any ban.

https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/us-chip-association-presses-for-export-control-review

HiSilicon (far from scaling back its activity) is on a worldwide hiring spree for top talent.

https://www.world-today-news.com/huawei-hisilicon-recruits-specialists-from-all-over-the-world-promising-5-times-higher-salary/

It is even getting into the foundry business and pulling talent away from TSMC. Over 130 companies have requested licences to do business with Huawei. Google is probably number one on the list after seeing HarmonyOS hit 100 million updates in two and a half months (not including products that ship with HarmonyOS out of the box).

 https://www.gizchina.com/2021/09/13/harmonyos-2-increases-its-target-for-this-year-to-400-million-units/

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

avon b7 said:

9secondkox2 said:

Even with 5G, Huawei just isn’t that great. 

Anyone who’s used both will auto choose the iPhone. 

And the pricing strategy for the 13 is brilliant. 

Still would like to see Apple have an exit strategy from China. 

Can you give examples to back that claim up?

Huawei has consistently been the top of the camera ratings. To many, it still is!

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p50-pro-camera-review-outstanding-in-all-areas/

It has some of the best WiFi converged capabilities on the market. It has probably one of the best reputations out there for battery life. Its charging technologies (wired or wireless, normal or reversed) are way ahead of Apple's. So are its antenna technologies. It had an on SoC 5G modem before Apple had 5G (bolted on).

"Anyone who's used both will auto choose an iPhone". 

No. The article is basically saying the complete opposite of that!

Huawei is currently re-jigging its supply chain to irradicate US technology dependencies.

US semi conductor manufacturers are so worried about losing Huawei trade that the semi conductor association wrote directly to the White House warning of the impact of any ban.

https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/us-chip-association-presses-for-export-control-review

HiSilicon (far from scaling back its activity) is on a worldwide hiring spree for top talent.

https://www.world-today-news.com/huawei-hisilicon-recruits-specialists-from-all-over-the-world-promising-5-times-higher-salary/

It is even getting into the foundry business and pulling talent away from TSMC. Over 130 companies have requested licences to do business with Huawei. Google is probably number one on the list after seeing HarmonyOS hit 100 million updates in two and a half months (not including products that ship with HarmonyOS out of the box).

 https://www.gizchina.com/2021/09/13/harmonyos-2-increases-its-target-for-this-year-to-400-million-units/

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

HiSilicon is a design company, not a foundry. Taiwan is restricting China companies from hiring their semiconductor talent;

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Taiwan-bans-recruitment-for-jobs-in-China-to-combat-brain-drain

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2021/06/22/quiet-concerns-over-taiwans-chip-domination/

There are no Chinese foundries with capabilities below 10nm, so no SOC for smartphones fabricated in China. China is a few percentage points of 10 nm production compared to the rest of the world.

Given the backlogs in the semiconductor industry, I doubt that the U.S. Semconductor Association will make any headway in opening up increased sales to Huawei. To date, Huawei has not been able to access Samsung or TMSC for SOC production of existing HiSilicon designs. I do not believe that Huawei will be able to access Qualcomm either.

Xiaomi, et al, are filling in the sales void that Huawei absence has left.

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

Huawei did in fact have the leading smartphone based on DXOmark, and these were sold in relatively small numbers, maybe in the tens of thousands, maybe a few hundreds of thousands. At the same time, it is Apple that sells the bulk of iPhones at prices above the $400, and $800 tiers, and even it's Pro models sell in the 10's of millions. Of course, iPhone sales for Apple start at $399, so even that price point is only a couple of percent of sales.

I don't foresee Huawei reentering the smartphone market outside of China. Its Chinese OEM competitors will have staked out that space. That doesn't bode well for Harmony OS outside of China.

Huawei Telecom is hurting as well;

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/tech/ericsson-nokia-benefit-most-from-first-half-2021-telco-network-spend

Huawei soared too close to the sun. They should have never been so closely attached to the PRC.

of note;

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58564837

The UK, US and Australia have announced a historic security pact in the Asia-Pacific, in what's seen as an effort to counter China.

It will let Australia build nuclear-powered submarines for the first time, using technology provided by the US.

The Aukus pact, which will also cover AI and other technologies, is one of the countries' biggest defence partnerships in decades, analysts say.

China has condemned the agreement as "extremely irresponsible".

Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it "seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race".

China's embassy in Washington accused the countries of a "Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice".

This is all on Xi Jinping.

But wait, there's more;

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-australia-arms-deal-flop-105029254.html

BRUSSELS, Sept 16 (Reuters) - The European Union set out a formal strategy on Thursday to boost its presence in the Indo-Pacific and counter China's rising power, pledging to seek a trade deal with Taiwan and to deploy more ships to keep open sea routes.

The EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell insisted the strategy was also open to China, particularly in areas such as climate change, but diplomats told Reuters that deeper ties with India, Japan, Australia and Taiwan were aimed at limiting Beijing's power.

Borrell also said Wednesday's agreement https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-biden-asia/china-fumes-over-australias-nuclear-sub-pact-with-u-s-britain-idUSKBN2GB2BN between the United States, Australia and Britain to establish a security partnership for the Indo-Pacific, in which the EU was not consulted, showed the need for a more assertive foreign policy.

He said the EU was eager to work with Britain on security but that London had shown no interest since it left the bloc, expressing regret that Australia had cancelled a $40 billion submarine deal with France.

"We must survive on our own, as others do," Borrell said as he presented a new EU strategy for the Indo-Pacific region, talking of the "strategic autonomy" that French President Emmanuel Macron has championed.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4709

Taiwan will be happy to buy those submarines.

Oh what the fuck now;

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/chinese-smartphone-giant-cuts-jobs-after-going-up-against-apple?sref=M65jzF3E

Smartphone maker Oppo is cutting around 20% of staff in key software and device teams after it merged operations with affiliate OnePlus, the first major consolidation in a Chinese mobile industry struggling with chip shortages and Covid-triggered economic shocks.

Oppo, which in 2016 became the country’s top-selling brand, is retrenching after expanding too rapidly on the hiring front in recent years and attacking a premium segment dominated by Apple Inc., people familiar with the matter said. The cuts affect important units including a team that customizes Android into its in-house ColorOS, and an Internet of Things division that develops a spectrum of wearables such as smartwatches and earbuds, said the people, asking not to be identified discussing a private matter.

Oppo has merged since mid-2021 with smaller high-end brand OnePlus, with which it shares backers, to pool development resources and reduce overhead, but that’s creating redundant positions. Its R&D team for phones and overseas sales positions haven’t been impacted yet by cuts, one of the people said. An Oppo representative declined to comment for the story.

Shenzhen-based Oppo built one of China’s biggest smartphone brands by rallying private retailers in rural areas and tricking out its devices with larger batteries and memory. But heavy investments to expand into markets from India to Southeast Asia and Europe have not paid off as expected against fierce competition from the likes of Xiaomi Corp. and Apple. It’s now contending with a Chinese retail slowdown as Covid’s resurgence locks down parts of the country.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

9secondkox2 said:

Even with 5G, Huawei just isn’t that great. 

Anyone who’s used both will auto choose the iPhone. 

And the pricing strategy for the 13 is brilliant. 

Still would like to see Apple have an exit strategy from China. 

Can you give examples to back that claim up?

Huawei has consistently been the top of the camera ratings. To many, it still is!

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p50-pro-camera-review-outstanding-in-all-areas/

It has some of the best WiFi converged capabilities on the market. It has probably one of the best reputations out there for battery life. Its charging technologies (wired or wireless, normal or reversed) are way ahead of Apple's. So are its antenna technologies. It had an on SoC 5G modem before Apple had 5G (bolted on).

"Anyone who's used both will auto choose an iPhone". 

No. The article is basically saying the complete opposite of that!

Huawei is currently re-jigging its supply chain to irradicate US technology dependencies.

US semi conductor manufacturers are so worried about losing Huawei trade that the semi conductor association wrote directly to the White House warning of the impact of any ban.

https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/us-chip-association-presses-for-export-control-review

HiSilicon (far from scaling back its activity) is on a worldwide hiring spree for top talent.

https://www.world-today-news.com/huawei-hisilicon-recruits-specialists-from-all-over-the-world-promising-5-times-higher-salary/

It is even getting into the foundry business and pulling talent away from TSMC. Over 130 companies have requested licences to do business with Huawei. Google is probably number one on the list after seeing HarmonyOS hit 100 million updates in two and a half months (not including products that ship with HarmonyOS out of the box).

 https://www.gizchina.com/2021/09/13/harmonyos-2-increases-its-target-for-this-year-to-400-million-units/

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

HiSilicon is a design company, not a foundry. Taiwan is restricting China companies from hiring their semiconductor talent;

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Taiwan-bans-recruitment-for-jobs-in-China-to-combat-brain-drain

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2021/06/22/quiet-concerns-over-taiwans-chip-domination/

There are no Chinese foundries with capabilities below 10nm, so no SOC for smartphones fabricated in China. China is a few percentage points of 10 nm production compared to the rest of the world.

Given the backlogs in the semiconductor industry, I doubt that the U.S. Semconductor Association will make any headway in opening up increased sales to Huawei. To date, Huawei has not been able to access Samsung or TMSC for SOC production of existing HiSilicon designs. I do not believe that Huawei will be able to access Qualcomm either.

Xiaomi, et al, are filling in the sales void that Huawei absence has left.

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

Huawei did in fact have the leading smartphone based on DXOmark, and these were sold in relatively small numbers, maybe in the tens of thousands, maybe a few hundreds of thousands. At the same time, it is Apple that sells the bulk of iPhones at prices above the $400, and $800 tiers, and even it's Pro models sell in the 10's of millions. Of course, iPhone sales for Apple start at $399, so even that price point is only a couple of percent of sales.

I don't foresee Huawei reentering the smartphone market outside of China. Its Chinese OEM competitors will have staked out that space. That doesn't bode well for Harmony OS outside of China.

Huawei Telecom is hurting as well;

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/tech/ericsson-nokia-benefit-most-from-first-half-2021-telco-network-spend

Huawei soared too close to the sun. They should have never been so closely attached to the PRC.

of note;

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58564837

The UK, US and Australia have announced a historic security pact in the Asia-Pacific, in what's seen as an effort to counter China.

It will let Australia build nuclear-powered submarines for the first time, using technology provided by the US.

The Aukus pact, which will also cover AI and other technologies, is one of the countries' biggest defence partnerships in decades, analysts say.

China has condemned the agreement as "extremely irresponsible".

Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it "seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race".

China's embassy in Washington accused the countries of a "Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice".

This is all on Xi Jinping.

But wait, there's more;

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-australia-arms-deal-flop-105029254.html

BRUSSELS, Sept 16 (Reuters) - The European Union set out a formal strategy on Thursday to boost its presence in the Indo-Pacific and counter China's rising power, pledging to seek a trade deal with Taiwan and to deploy more ships to keep open sea routes.

The EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell insisted the strategy was also open to China, particularly in areas such as climate change, but diplomats told Reuters that deeper ties with India, Japan, Australia and Taiwan were aimed at limiting Beijing's power.

Borrell also said Wednesday's agreement https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-biden-asia/china-fumes-over-australias-nuclear-sub-pact-with-u-s-britain-idUSKBN2GB2BN between the United States, Australia and Britain to establish a security partnership for the Indo-Pacific, in which the EU was not consulted, showed the need for a more assertive foreign policy.

He said the EU was eager to work with Britain on security but that London had shown no interest since it left the bloc, expressing regret that Australia had cancelled a $40 billion submarine deal with France.

"We must survive on our own, as others do," Borrell said as he presented a new EU strategy for the Indo-Pacific region, talking of the "strategic autonomy" that French President Emmanuel Macron has championed.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4709

Taiwan will be happy to buy those submarines.

Oh what the fuck now;

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/chinese-smartphone-giant-cuts-jobs-after-going-up-against-apple?sref=M65jzF3E

Smartphone maker Oppo is cutting around 20% of staff in key software and device teams after it merged operations with affiliate OnePlus, the first major consolidation in a Chinese mobile industry struggling with chip shortages and Covid-triggered economic shocks.

Oppo, which in 2016 became the country’s top-selling brand, is retrenching after expanding too rapidly on the hiring front in recent years and attacking a premium segment dominated by Apple Inc., people familiar with the matter said. The cuts affect important units including a team that customizes Android into its in-house ColorOS, and an Internet of Things division that develops a spectrum of wearables such as smartwatches and earbuds, said the people, asking not to be identified discussing a private matter.

Oppo has merged since mid-2021 with smaller high-end brand OnePlus, with which it shares backers, to pool development resources and reduce overhead, but that’s creating redundant positions. Its R&D team for phones and overseas sales positions haven’t been impacted yet by cuts, one of the people said. An Oppo representative declined to comment for the story.

Shenzhen-based Oppo built one of China’s biggest smartphone brands by rallying private retailers in rural areas and tricking out its devices with larger batteries and memory. But heavy investments to expand into markets from India to Southeast Asia and Europe have not paid off as expected against fierce competition from the likes of Xiaomi Corp. and Apple. It’s now contending with a Chinese retail slowdown as Covid’s resurgence locks down parts of the country.

Taiwan is powerless to prevent a brain drain. Top scientists have already moved in both directions. Normal business in that regard. On top of that, they often do not have to leave Taiwan. HiSilicon and Huawei have offices there. 

Talking about 'now' is simply stating the obvious. We already know what the situation is now. Huawei is moving into the foundry business and clearly with the goal of eliminating US elements from the supply chain. It will start with larger process modes and move down.

It doesn't have any alternative. US semi conductor interests will suffer as a result. Billions in lost revenues. That is already happening. TSMC is also losing billions but on top of that, it knows Huawei is destined to become a top level competitor, further complicating its situation.

In the short term, US technology will be pulled out of the international supply chain to accommodate 'politically safe' alternatives to Huawei while it develops its own foundry business. 

Currently, it looks like they already have the technical capacity to do this down to 3nm or will have soon. From there, it is a question of finding the production capacity. 

Samsung, SMIC and Mediatek the rumoured manufacturers. 

In the case of 5G chipsets, one particular component is currently holding things back and obviously you can expect that problem to be resolved as a priority. 

The sun and submarines are irrevelant to Huawei. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

9secondkox2 said:

Even with 5G, Huawei just isn’t that great. 

Anyone who’s used both will auto choose the iPhone. 

And the pricing strategy for the 13 is brilliant. 

Still would like to see Apple have an exit strategy from China. 

Can you give examples to back that claim up?

Huawei has consistently been the top of the camera ratings. To many, it still is!

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p50-pro-camera-review-outstanding-in-all-areas/

It has some of the best WiFi converged capabilities on the market. It has probably one of the best reputations out there for battery life. Its charging technologies (wired or wireless, normal or reversed) are way ahead of Apple's. So are its antenna technologies. It had an on SoC 5G modem before Apple had 5G (bolted on).

"Anyone who's used both will auto choose an iPhone". 

No. The article is basically saying the complete opposite of that!

Huawei is currently re-jigging its supply chain to irradicate US technology dependencies.

US semi conductor manufacturers are so worried about losing Huawei trade that the semi conductor association wrote directly to the White House warning of the impact of any ban.

https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/us-chip-association-presses-for-export-control-review

HiSilicon (far from scaling back its activity) is on a worldwide hiring spree for top talent.

https://www.world-today-news.com/huawei-hisilicon-recruits-specialists-from-all-over-the-world-promising-5-times-higher-salary/

It is even getting into the foundry business and pulling talent away from TSMC. Over 130 companies have requested licences to do business with Huawei. Google is probably number one on the list after seeing HarmonyOS hit 100 million updates in two and a half months (not including products that ship with HarmonyOS out of the box).

 https://www.gizchina.com/2021/09/13/harmonyos-2-increases-its-target-for-this-year-to-400-million-units/

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

HiSilicon is a design company, not a foundry. Taiwan is restricting China companies from hiring their semiconductor talent;

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Taiwan-bans-recruitment-for-jobs-in-China-to-combat-brain-drain

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2021/06/22/quiet-concerns-over-taiwans-chip-domination/

There are no Chinese foundries with capabilities below 10nm, so no SOC for smartphones fabricated in China. China is a few percentage points of 10 nm production compared to the rest of the world.

Given the backlogs in the semiconductor industry, I doubt that the U.S. Semconductor Association will make any headway in opening up increased sales to Huawei. To date, Huawei has not been able to access Samsung or TMSC for SOC production of existing HiSilicon designs. I do not believe that Huawei will be able to access Qualcomm either.

Xiaomi, et al, are filling in the sales void that Huawei absence has left.

There will be an obvious lull in flagship activity while things are re-aligned and competitors (Apple is just one) can obviously take advantage of that (and catch up!) but it is only because of government action, not the products made by the company. 

Huawei did in fact have the leading smartphone based on DXOmark, and these were sold in relatively small numbers, maybe in the tens of thousands, maybe a few hundreds of thousands. At the same time, it is Apple that sells the bulk of iPhones at prices above the $400, and $800 tiers, and even it's Pro models sell in the 10's of millions. Of course, iPhone sales for Apple start at $399, so even that price point is only a couple of percent of sales.

I don't foresee Huawei reentering the smartphone market outside of China. Its Chinese OEM competitors will have staked out that space. That doesn't bode well for Harmony OS outside of China.

Huawei Telecom is hurting as well;

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/tech/ericsson-nokia-benefit-most-from-first-half-2021-telco-network-spend

Huawei soared too close to the sun. They should have never been so closely attached to the PRC.

of note;

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58564837

The UK, US and Australia have announced a historic security pact in the Asia-Pacific, in what's seen as an effort to counter China.

It will let Australia build nuclear-powered submarines for the first time, using technology provided by the US.

The Aukus pact, which will also cover AI and other technologies, is one of the countries' biggest defence partnerships in decades, analysts say.

China has condemned the agreement as "extremely irresponsible".

Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it "seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race".

China's embassy in Washington accused the countries of a "Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice".

This is all on Xi Jinping.

But wait, there's more;

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-australia-arms-deal-flop-105029254.html

BRUSSELS, Sept 16 (Reuters) - The European Union set out a formal strategy on Thursday to boost its presence in the Indo-Pacific and counter China's rising power, pledging to seek a trade deal with Taiwan and to deploy more ships to keep open sea routes.

The EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell insisted the strategy was also open to China, particularly in areas such as climate change, but diplomats told Reuters that deeper ties with India, Japan, Australia and Taiwan were aimed at limiting Beijing's power.

Borrell also said Wednesday's agreement https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-biden-asia/china-fumes-over-australias-nuclear-sub-pact-with-u-s-britain-idUSKBN2GB2BN between the United States, Australia and Britain to establish a security partnership for the Indo-Pacific, in which the EU was not consulted, showed the need for a more assertive foreign policy.

He said the EU was eager to work with Britain on security but that London had shown no interest since it left the bloc, expressing regret that Australia had cancelled a $40 billion submarine deal with France.

"We must survive on our own, as others do," Borrell said as he presented a new EU strategy for the Indo-Pacific region, talking of the "strategic autonomy" that French President Emmanuel Macron has championed.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4709

Taiwan will be happy to buy those submarines.

Oh what the fuck now;

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/chinese-smartphone-giant-cuts-jobs-after-going-up-against-apple?sref=M65jzF3E

Smartphone maker Oppo is cutting around 20% of staff in key software and device teams after it merged operations with affiliate OnePlus, the first major consolidation in a Chinese mobile industry struggling with chip shortages and Covid-triggered economic shocks.

Oppo, which in 2016 became the country’s top-selling brand, is retrenching after expanding too rapidly on the hiring front in recent years and attacking a premium segment dominated by Apple Inc., people familiar with the matter said. The cuts affect important units including a team that customizes Android into its in-house ColorOS, and an Internet of Things division that develops a spectrum of wearables such as smartwatches and earbuds, said the people, asking not to be identified discussing a private matter.

Oppo has merged since mid-2021 with smaller high-end brand OnePlus, with which it shares backers, to pool development resources and reduce overhead, but that’s creating redundant positions. Its R&D team for phones and overseas sales positions haven’t been impacted yet by cuts, one of the people said. An Oppo representative declined to comment for the story.

Shenzhen-based Oppo built one of China’s biggest smartphone brands by rallying private retailers in rural areas and tricking out its devices with larger batteries and memory. But heavy investments to expand into markets from India to Southeast Asia and Europe have not paid off as expected against fierce competition from the likes of Xiaomi Corp. and Apple. It’s now contending with a Chinese retail slowdown as Covid’s resurgence locks down parts of the country.

Taiwan is powerless to prevent a brain drain. Top scientists have already moved in both directions. Normal business in that regard. On top of that, they often do not have to leave Taiwan. HiSilicon and Huawei have offices there. 

Talking about 'now' is simply stating the obvious. We already know what the situation is now. Huawei is moving into the foundry business and clearly with the goal of eliminating US elements from the supply chain. It will start with larger process modes and move down.

It doesn't have any alternative. US semi conductor interests will suffer as a result. Billions in lost revenues. That is already happening. TSMC is also losing billions but on top of that, it knows Huawei is destined to become a top level competitor, further complicating its situation.

In the short term, US technology will be pulled out of the international supply chain to accommodate 'politically safe' alternatives to Huawei while it develops its own foundry business. 

Currently, it looks like they already have the technical capacity to do this down to 3nm or will have soon. From there, it is a question of finding the production capacity. 

Samsung, SMIC and Mediatek the rumoured manufacturers. 

In the case of 5G chipsets, one particular component is currently holding things back and obviously you can expect that problem to be resolved as a priority. 

The sun and submarines are irrevelant to Huawei. 

FFS, stop self medicating hallucinagens...

TSMC and Samsung just raised prices into the double digits. They aren't losing anything at all today from lack of Huawei/HiSilicon orders simply because TSMC is production constrained for at least another year. Even after that, HiSilicon/Huawei/PRC will still not have those nodes that are in highest demand for computing products, including smartphones. TSMC's strongest competition is coming from the same  Western supply chain that is concerned about the PRC invading Taiwan, hence why TSMC is building a fab in Arizona.

Your wishful thinking may be true 5 to 10 years into the future, but it isn't anywhere true today, and there isn't a chance in hell of SMIC getting 3 nm production within the next 5 years without currently banned Western technology. Meanwhile, Intel is getting back on its feet, and that is going to have an impact in the PC and Cloud realm that Arm is attempting to enter.

More to the point, why aren't you pushing EU semiconductor tech? Is it that you are so biased for the PRC that you can't even support your own EU industries? How fucked up is that.

I posted the submarine and EU links because it is yet another indicator of the West coalescing around constraining China in the Indo Pacific, which has and does effect Huawei. The PRC's only friends are other authoritarians; North Korea, Iran, Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Turkey. I'm sure there are plenty of smaller countries that will throw in with the PRC as well.