Discussing Apple's App Store with Rogue Amoeba's Paul Kafasis on the AppleInsider podcast

Following months of drama about Apple's App Store policies and procedures, your AppleInsider Podcast hosts talked to Mac developer and founder of Rogue Amoeba software, Paul Kafasis, to get the developer's point of view.

After the House antitrust hearing, developers have spoken out against statements made by Apple CEO Tim Cook. On this special episode on the AppleInsider podcast, longtime Mac developer and founder of software company Rogue Amoeba, Paul Kafasis joins us for a special interview.

With over 20 years of experience in software development, Paul comments on several claims made by Tim Cook during the hearing, Apple's 30% revenue cut from App Store purchases, and on the opening of iOS and iPadOS to side-loading apps.

Our thanks to Paul for coming on the show. Be sure to check out the incredible audio apps from Rogue Amoeba, including Audio Hijack, Loopback, and others on macaudio.com

If you have questions or comments, tweet at Stephen Robles or email us here. Find us in your favorite podcast player by searching for "AppleInsider" and support the show by leaving a 5-Star rating and comment in Apple Podcasts here.

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13 Comments

foregoneconclusion 12 Years · 2857 comments

About 4 years ago

Isn't it also misleading to imply that Apple's role with the App Store amounts to payment processing and providing server space? Those are the only two things discussed in regards to Apple's 30% cut after Tim Cook is criticized for being "misleading" in not mentioning internet software sales as a comparison to the App Store. That's like saying that an independent developer that sells exclusively through their web site only has to think about the cost of payment processing and server space when pricing their app.

melgross 20 Years · 33622 comments

Yes. Developers are conveniently “forgetting” that it costs Apple to run the store. It costs to have all of those in-house developers to write the software for the store to keep up to date. It costs to advertise and market the store and their products. Apple gives software away at times, for free, but pays the developer their 70% cut of the normal price, while receiving nothing themselves. Apple has several thousand people checking apps for malware and other problems. They lower the cut for subscriptions after the first year to 15%. This is addition to the services he mentioned.

i remember when Apple came out with the App Store and announced the 30% cut, and what Apple was doing for that cut, and developers were dancing in the streets because they knew the cut was so low. Other online stores were charging 40%. And brick and mortar stores charged up to 60%.

while I don’t agree with every store policy Apple has regarding competing products, most of what Apple does is correct. As an owner of businesses, I understand that you have to make a profit off pretty much everything you offer. It’s been said, by financial people, that Apple makes five cents profit off every dollar in sales from the App Store. That just five cents out of the thirty they take, and that’s not much.

EsquireCats 8 Years · 1268 comments

This developer has already vocalised his views through multiple channels. Presenting this as an average developer viewpoint is insincere, we already know he has grievances.

The core issue is that developers fail to see the partnership aspect of the various online stores Apple run, they largely come from an era where digital sales are the norm and fail to understand that the work involved in making such a marketplace goes well beyond simple transactional duties.

A developer with a team of 20 staff simply has no concept of the internal machinery of a large company, it's one of the key advantages of running a small business - the overheads are truly minimal. The flipside of that coin is that a small business is not able to launch and scale to the level needed to provide these kind of services.

A few vocal developers consistently fail to see beyond themselves in the equation. They hate the idea that a cut of each sale is going to support a huge range of other developers, they also fail to understand that that richness and variety is why people keep coming back to the stores.

Even just looking at your local supermarket, you'll see App Store gift cards, they'll be 10-20% off their redemption price. Where do they think that discount is coming from? Who do they think is paying the store to stock them? The 15 to 30% they pay in a cut is used for a staggering, almost mind blowing number of marketing initiatives. Then of course we can get into the technical costs of running such a massive server farm, or the cost of developing green power for that farm, or the cost of bandwidth and distribution networks, the cost of hiring people to review apps so the store isn't a mess of malware, and so on: 30% suddenly becomes a steal for the developer. In comparison ordinary retail chains would take more than that, and the developer would still be stuck with additional boxing and distribution costs.

It's actually disgusting to hear these developers fap on like they're being hard done by, its ensures that I won't buy anything from them again and that they lack the creativity to turn their perceived lemons into lemonade. They think Apple need to get with the times, I argue they need to get with the times.

dewme 10 Years · 5775 comments

melgross said:

Yes. Developers are conveniently “forgetting” that it costs Apple to run the store. It costs to have all of those in-house developers to write the software for the store to keep up to date. It costs to advertise and market the store and their products. Apple gives software away at times, for free, but pays the developer their 70% cut of the normal price, while receiving nothing themselves. Apple has several thousand people checking apps for malware and other problems. They lower the cut for subscriptions after the first year to 15%. This is addition to the services he mentioned.

i remember when Apple came out with the App Store and announced the 30% cut, and what Apple was doing for that cut, and developers were dancing in the streets because they knew the cut was so low. Other online stores were charging 40%. And brick and mortar stores charged up to 60%.

while I don’t agree with every store policy Apple has regarding competing products, most of what Apple does is correct. As an owner of businesses, I understand that you have to make a profit off pretty much everything you offer. It’s been said, by financial people, that Apple makes five cents profit off every dollar in sales from the App Store. That just five cents out of the thirty they take, and that’s not much.

Data Centers don't build themselves, the land to build them on wasn't free, the power to run them isn't free, and the maintenance and security needed to keep them running 24x7x365 has a big price tag on it. So there's a massive outlay in non-recurring costs and continuing support costs even before you start to talk about what's happening around the content that's kept in those data centers.

I'm always amazed when people complain about what any manufacturer (not just Apple) charges for a product compared to its bill of material (BOM) cost. Do they realize the engineers, designers, planners, managers, and those who figure out how to manufacture the product, and the equipment and resources needed to carry out the industrial process costs a ton of money? Real people are getting paychecks and suppliers and contractors are sending in invoices that must be paid even before widget #1 rolls off the assembly line. You'd think that most people would see this as clear as day, but somehow it slips through the cracks of human thought for way too many.

robin huber 22 Years · 4026 comments

My first thought was that he was supporting Apple’s position by making it clear that developers not only have a choice, but a superior one at that. So much for Apple monopoly.