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Apple's Cook, Federighi, Schiller, other top execs to testify in trial with Epic

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Current and former Apple executives, including CEO Tim Cook and ex-iOS chief Scott Forstall, are scheduled to testify at an upcoming trial involving Epic Games that could reshape how the tech giant manages the App Store.

According to a tentative witness list submitted to the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on Friday, Apple is furnishing a total of 11 current and former executives with ties to the App Store for live questioning. Others will sit for depositions.

On the list are Cook, Forstall, SVP of Software Engineering Craig Federighi, Apple Fellow and former head of marketing Phil Schiller, App Store VP Matt Fischer, commerce and payments director Eric Gray, game development manager Mark Grimm, senior director of developer technical services C.K. Haun, senior director of marketing Trystan Kosmynka, senior director of partnership management and worldwide developer relations Shaan Pruden, head of game business Michael Schmid, and head of fraud eng., algorithms and risk Eric Friedman.

"Our senior executives look forward to sharing with the court the very positive impact the App Store has had on innovation, economies across the world and the customer experience over the last 12 years," Apple said in a statement to MacRumors. "We feel confident the case will prove that Epic purposefully breached its agreement solely to increase its revenues, which is what resulted in their removal from the App Store. By doing that, Epic circumvented the security features of the App Store in a way that would lead to reduced competition and put consumers' privacy and data security at tremendous risk."

Cook is estimated to sit for an hour of examination, an hour of cross-examination, and a 10-minute re-direct, when he will speak on Apple's corporate values, development and launch of the App Store and industry competition. Federighi will appear for a total of just over three hours and will offer information pertaining to iOS, competition faced by Apple, Apple's investment and efforts to combat malware and spyware, as well as other issues relating to user security, according to Apple's filing.

Schiller's testimony is expected to last a total of 11 hours — six hours for direct examination, four hours for cross-examination and one hour for re-direct examination. The head of App Store operations is anticipated to answer questions relating to the development and launch of the digital marketplace, its policies and guidelines, business model, commission system, and app distribution in general. He will also provide testimony on iOS, industry competition, and the design, development, launch, and marketing of iPhone.

Forstall is being called as a third party witness and will be deposed prior to the trial. Other third party witnesses include executives from Facebook, Microsoft and Nvidia, as well as former Apple employees Ron Okamoto and Phillip Shoemaker.

Epic is tentatively expected to provide CEO Tim Sweeney, COO Daniel Vogel, former CFO Joseph Babcock, VP of marketing Matthew Weissinger and other current and former executives as witnesses.

The forthcoming bench trial, which kicked off when Epic sued Apple over the removal of "Fortnite" from the App Store, is scheduled to start on May 3 at the behest of Judge Yvonne Gonzalez.



32 Comments

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Detnator 4 Years · 287 comments

Hmmm...  this’ll be good. Time to make the popcorn.

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macwiz44 15 Years · 11 comments

I have not seen anyone mention or comment on this from the original Epic actions. 

- Epic complained about Apple’s 30% cut on in-app purchases. Fortnight is free in the App Store. Note: it is a multi gigabyte download. Multiple that for every user download and every app update/upgrade. Apple has to pay for bandwidth so this “free” download doesn’t cost Epic anything, but it does cost Apple. 
- Epic’s in-app purchase was $10, so $3 was going to Apple
- I believe on their web site Epic lowered the price to $7 to show they would “pass the savings to customers”. This is for the PC-based version I believe. 
- But here’s my item that I haven’t seen mentioned, in Epic’s new in-app purchase they were charging $8. Not $7. So in their proposed new system they are actually making more money and not passing it onto consumers. A 14.3% increase in the money they would receive from consumers. Or they are acknowledging there is a 12.5% cost to providing in-app payments to consumers. So, if we give Apple the same costs for their in-app system, then Apple is making a profit less than 20% for the iOS ecosystem and everything they have built to generate that development business model that Epic is profiting from. 

 Epic was never doing this for the consumers. They see a way to make more money and remove a cost of doing business. 

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lkrupp 19 Years · 10521 comments

If Epic prevails and Apple is forced to allow Epic to process payments without Apple getting cut then Apple should be within its rights to charge a monthly fee for their app to remain on App Store shelves, say $5K/mo or more.

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hammeroftruth 16 Years · 1356 comments

macwiz44 said:
I have not seen anyone mention or comment on this from the original Epic actions. 
- Epic complained about Apple’s 30% cut on in-app purchases. Fortnight is free in the App Store. Note: it is a multi gigabyte download. Multiple that for every user download and every app update/upgrade. Apple has to pay for bandwidth so this “free” download doesn’t cost Epic anything, but it does cost Apple. 
- Epic’s in-app purchase was $10, so $3 was going to Apple
- I believe on their web site Epic lowered the price to $7 to show they would “pass the savings to customers”. This is for the PC-based version I believe. 
- But here’s my item that I haven’t seen mentioned, in Epic’s new in-app purchase they were charging $8. Not $7. So in their proposed new system they are actually making more money and not passing it onto consumers. A 14.3% increase in the money they would receive from consumers. Or they are acknowledging there is a 12.5% cost to providing in-app payments to consumers. So, if we give Apple the same costs for their in-app system, then Apple is making a profit less than 20% for the iOS ecosystem and everything they have built to generate that development business model that Epic is profiting from. 

 Epic was never doing this for the consumers. They see a way to make more money and remove a cost of doing business. 

I don’t think they ever thought they would have to show their math. I think they would claim that if Apple dropped the percentage of their cut, then Epic would reduce the amount of the purchase by that much. Epic is trying to convince consumers that Apple’s fees are like EBay’s fees and are unnecessarily high. 


If it gets this far, the case would shine a light on how much “free” apps cost Apple, and the results might shock some people. 

The thing that gets me is how is Epic going to explain being happy with the agreement for so long to all of a sudden, break it with premeditation of legal action. That is not acting in good faith. <— Big stickler when enforcing business agreements. 

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danox 11 Years · 3447 comments

Why is Apple doing business with them?, when this is over cut them out of your business life.

Sometimes you just need to move on from a bad marriage.....