Huawei planning enforcement of 5G patent royalty fees for Apple, others

Is this the correct spelling: I.r.o.n.y?

/gobsmacked

This is hilarious! The company that built its business on technology stolen from Cisco is now trying to enforce its own 'patents'. I bet most of Huawei's so-called Standard Essential Patents are bogus and not actually 'essential' to 5G. Huawei is the Chinese Qualcomm. Qualcomm used to contend that it had SEPs on 5G/LTE, but when these patents were challenged in court, Qualcomm chose to settle rather than have their patents evaluated for 'essential' status. 

spock1234 said:

This is hilarious! The company that built its business on technology stolen from Cisco is now trying to enforce its own 'patents'. I bet most of Huawei's so-called Standard Essential Patents are bogus and not actually 'essential' to 5G. Huawei is the Chinese Qualcomm. Qualcomm used to contend that it had SEPs on 5G/LTE, but when these patents were challenged in court, Qualcomm chose to settle rather than have their patents evaluated for 'essential' status. 

You need to focus more on reality and less on drawing sprawling conclusions that are wildly off base. 

It might surprise you to know that Huawei outspends almost all its competitors in 5G R&D spending and has amassed a gigantic pool of patents, many of them from in-house efforts. 

It has also been reported (for years) that Apple has a licencing agreement with Huawei which sees Apple paying them millions for almost 800 of its patents. 

Patent disputes do pop up and sometimes they are won and sometimes they are lost. That's business as usual for all big companies. 

Last time I heard, Apple was involved in far more patent disputes than Huawei. And I mean by a huge margin. 

Huawei has almost 100,000 employees involved in science and engineering spread around the world.

Just one example:

https://www.gizchina.com/2020/10/11/huawei-opens-its-sixth-research-institute-in-france-focuses-on-mathematics-and-computing/

They aren't twiddling their fingers and, worldwide, set thousands of their scientists onto the task of achieving major breakthroughs in things like Polar Codes. 

avon b7 said:

spock1234 said:

This is hilarious! The company that built its business on technology stolen from Cisco is now trying to enforce its own 'patents'. I bet most of Huawei's so-called Standard Essential Patents are bogus and not actually 'essential' to 5G. Huawei is the Chinese Qualcomm. Qualcomm used to contend that it had SEPs on 5G/LTE, but when these patents were challenged in court, Qualcomm chose to settle rather than have their patents evaluated for 'essential' status. 

You need to focus more on reality and less on drawing sprawling conclusions that are wildly off base. 

It might surprise you to know that Huawei outspends almost all its competitors in 5G R&D spending and has amassed a gigantic pool of patents, many of them from in-house efforts. 

It has also been reported (for years) that Apple has a licencing agreement with Huawei which sees Apple paying them millions for almost 800 of its patents. 

Patent disputes do pop up and sometimes they are won and sometimes they are lost. That's business as usual for all big companies. 

Last time I heard, Apple was involved in far more patent disputes than Huawei. And I mean by a huge margin. 

Huawei has almost 100,000 employees involved in science and engineering spread around the world.

Just one example:

https://www.gizchina.com/2020/10/11/huawei-opens-its-sixth-research-institute-in-france-focuses-on-mathematics-and-computing/

They aren't twiddling their fingers and, worldwide, set thousands of their scientists onto the task of achieving major breakthroughs in things like Polar Codes. 

I'm not so sure that a simplistic counting of declared patents means all that much.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2020/02/27/5g-patent-value-is-more-important-than-number-of-patents/?sh=74b8cf677941

By value, Qualcomm is leading, 

https://www.lightreading.com/asia-pacific/who-rules-5g-patents-it-depends-how-you-ask/d/d-id/756790

"This was that Ericsson is the biggest 5G patent owner with 15.8% of filings, followed by Samsung (14.8%) and Qualcomm (12.9%). Huawei and ZTE rank fifth and seventh respectively. 

The team at Bird & Bird conclude: "When running the analysis with a broader range of assumptions and metrics, we find that there is no consensus that China is in the lead. Depending on the precise inputs, European, South Korean, Chinese, and US companies can all take the top spot(s)."

The point is that Huawei "amassing a gigantic pool of patents" doesn't necessarily equate to them being the leader in 5G patents, but it is good marketing for them.

Me, I'm thinking that whatever Apple pays for licensing, is quite a value when they are selling something on the order of 150M 5G iPhones in a single year.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

spock1234 said:

This is hilarious! The company that built its business on technology stolen from Cisco is now trying to enforce its own 'patents'. I bet most of Huawei's so-called Standard Essential Patents are bogus and not actually 'essential' to 5G. Huawei is the Chinese Qualcomm. Qualcomm used to contend that it had SEPs on 5G/LTE, but when these patents were challenged in court, Qualcomm chose to settle rather than have their patents evaluated for 'essential' status. 

You need to focus more on reality and less on drawing sprawling conclusions that are wildly off base. 

It might surprise you to know that Huawei outspends almost all its competitors in 5G R&D spending and has amassed a gigantic pool of patents, many of them from in-house efforts. 

It has also been reported (for years) that Apple has a licencing agreement with Huawei which sees Apple paying them millions for almost 800 of its patents. 

Patent disputes do pop up and sometimes they are won and sometimes they are lost. That's business as usual for all big companies. 

Last time I heard, Apple was involved in far more patent disputes than Huawei. And I mean by a huge margin. 

Huawei has almost 100,000 employees involved in science and engineering spread around the world.

Just one example:

https://www.gizchina.com/2020/10/11/huawei-opens-its-sixth-research-institute-in-france-focuses-on-mathematics-and-computing/

They aren't twiddling their fingers and, worldwide, set thousands of their scientists onto the task of achieving major breakthroughs in things like Polar Codes. 

I'm not so sure that a simplistic counting of declared patents means all that much.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2020/02/27/5g-patent-value-is-more-important-than-number-of-patents/?sh=74b8cf677941

By value, Qualcomm is leading, 

https://www.lightreading.com/asia-pacific/who-rules-5g-patents-it-depends-how-you-ask/d/d-id/756790

"This was that Ericsson is the biggest 5G patent owner with 15.8% of filings, followed by Samsung (14.8%) and Qualcomm (12.9%). Huawei and ZTE rank fifth and seventh respectively. 

The team at Bird & Bird conclude: "When running the analysis with a broader range of assumptions and metrics, we find that there is no consensus that China is in the lead. Depending on the precise inputs, European, South Korean, Chinese, and US companies can all take the top spot(s)."

The point is that Huawei "amassing a gigantic pool of patents" doesn't necessarily equate to them being the leader in 5G patents, but it is good marketing for them.

Me, I'm thinking that whatever Apple pays for licensing, is quite a value when they are selling something on the order of 150M 5G iPhones in a single year.

In the context of my reply, counting patents (simplistic or not) is key. 

Those patents are the fruit of billions invested in R&D. 

I didn't touch on the 'value' of patents. That was not the focus and is irrelevant here. 

When I mentioned its vast patent pool, I was referencing the company's advances across the board, not just 5G (of which it has thousands). Those patents are more than enough for it to hold key seats on standards boards around the world.

Of course it doesn't stop with 5G. The spread covers the whole gamut of technology branches and isn't limited to applications in China. 

In Europe:

2017

https://www.thenewbarcelonapost.com/en/huawei-leads-the-ranking-of-the-companies-that-request-more-patents-in-europe/

2020 

https://www.telecomreview.com/index.php/articles/telecom-vendors/3745-huawei-tops-europe-patent-applications

Worldwide:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-patents-idUSKBN21P1P9

"According to the WIPO data, China's Huawei Technologies [HWT.UL], the world's biggest maker of telecoms equipment, was the top corporate patent filer for the third consecutive year." 

Strange that the OP didn't even bother to look at the bigger picture. Who better than Huawei itself to state their position:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www-file.huawei.com/-/media/CORPORATE/PDF/white%2520paper/2019/Huawei_White_Paper_on_Innovation_and_Intellectual_Property.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjfx_mlyLXvAhUNfMAKHVL-DvEQFjAAegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw3rIZ0WxU2bhKb4pCXV6HtW

Edit: original link wasn't working. Updated with Google URL